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 Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal

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sm12



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PostSubject: staff cuts   Tue 24 Feb 2009, 5:52 pm

Mary Kay

yes,everything is cleared up!!
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wachala1



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PostSubject: Re: Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal   Tue 24 Feb 2009, 6:16 pm

Again, for all who were at the Superintendents meetings, this is a "cost neutral" move, it is not being done for economic reasons. Those were Mr. Ely's words. So, stating that teachers are going to be cut because of the economy was never based upon anything to do with this proposal.

Understandably, with the bad economy, teachers will most likely be cut. Do we really need to help with this process? Do you believe Mrs. Coffey should be cut? I don't.

I do realize that our middle schools are in trouble and that there is a lot of apprehention having our Howe children going to a large MP school...but why is it okay for Woodlawn and Paige to go there instead? This k-8 proposal will not help the middle schools. It will help Howe in the short run, but district wide, it's not helping any of our other middle schoolers. Their classes will not get smaller with this proposal, they'll only get bigger especially in the next few years.

Let's start thinking about your neighbors middle schoolers, those children you meet at basketball and baseball. Don't we care that they will not benefit from this proposal?

Next year is a smaller 6th -7th grade class (697 total). With 51 remaining at King, that's approx. 210 students in each of the three middle schools (if we split and possibly redistricted). Combined with the current 7th - 8th graders, this fall both CP and Oneida would have 444 student population and MP could have a 509 population (that's a decrease of 181 students in MP alone). These are lower numbers. Something every middle school parent wants. That's fixing the overcrowded problem and will help all middle schoolers in Schenectady.

Thanks,
Joyce
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another lifer



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PostSubject: Central Park School   Tue 24 Feb 2009, 7:40 pm

I have been reading these posts for the past week. I understand that some Howe School parents of the younger children do not wish to have their children in a school with the older students. But some Howe School parents of the older children would like their children to go to Central Park rather than Mt. Pleasant, and for them this needs to happen soon as their children approach 7th and 8th grades.
However, when they chose the Howe Magnet school, they knew where their children would attend middle school. The whole idea of the magnet schools and the way they "fed" into the middle school was balance. That's why the state encourages and helps to fund these schools at a different rate than non-magnet schools. I'm not sure whether it was a balance of minorities, or if it was based on free and subsidized lunches, or both. In any event, the enrollment at Pleasant Valley never approached the desired "balance" exhibited in the rest of the district's elementary schools, and that has not been addressed until the second proposal offered last week.
I also understand that parents of future 7th and 8th grade students in other schools (Woodlawn, Lincoln, Paige) feel that their children are being displaced to accomodate the first proposal, and may also be displaced by the second proposal, depending on how the lottery goes for their children.
It's hard to know where students at the three new schools fit into the new plans.

Questions:

1.Why is Yates Magnet School not included in this proposal, as well as the other two magnets, Howe School, and M.L. King School?

2.What is proposed for the only 7th and 8th grade schools in the proposal, Oneida and Mt. Pleasant? Perhaps the Nasa Program could move to Oneida, and another special program could happen at Mt. Pleasant. Children at those age levels need interesting, gripping programs, whether they are in magnet schools or not. If there is not time to develop them, then that is a reason to wait another year.

3. In the first proposal, why would the K-8 Howe magnet at Central Park be the only middle school or 7th and 8th grade school with an International Baccalaureate Program leading into the high school program? Surely other students in other schools would be capable, and benefit.

4. Is there anyone who thinks Central Park is the right school for a K-8 population? Though some of the older schools in the district have no bathrooms in the classrooms for primary students, many of the other schools built more recently, or with additions, do. Sending Kindergarten and First Graders to the bathroom by themselves at Central Park, or worse yet, having to take an entire class to the bathroom at the same time is a waste of teaching time, and is hardly ever the right time for every student.
The school is very close to a busy street, especially with the traffic of hospital and physician offices directly across the street, making it dangerous for young children.

5. Why haven't all of the proposals been aired publicly? The time is now to see what configurations have been discussed.

I agree with those who have stated that this reorganization should be postponed for at least a year. Though the board and administration started planning this five years ago, it appears that the specifics were not communicated to the public until January. Everyone concerned would be better off if committees of parents, staff, and community members were formed to propose and discuss options that would benefit all students in the affected schools. This would be far better than discussions that seem to be happening separately with little chance of success.
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lafeal



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PostSubject: blah blah blah   Tue 24 Feb 2009, 10:37 pm

That's why their in such a rush to make the move at first, because it makes it easier to fire the staff. Let me ask you this. After your child is in this perfect bubble of a K-8 program. What's going to happen to that child when entering the HIGH SCHOOL. Can you guarentee that's you child won't drop out because of the stress and decisions they are going to make? Our children need to learn lifes lessons. To be a better person. I've been reading these post and you know what our children are going to do great because we as parents are up their #$%, with knowing what's going on in school and their life. I can only pray to God that I lead my children in the right path and they make the right decision.

AMEN

I want CP to stay a Middle school. That's is my children's "community" middle school. The heck with test scores, because Schenectady has the word, I don't know, what comes to mind Hmmmmm "DIVERSITY". People live in Schenectady because of the wonderful programs Schenectady has to offer. We have single parents that work, we have the parents that could care less, we have the parents that have to both work to get by. If the Admin. is looking to make our children better, then it should look at it as a whole. I feel moving Howe to CP is taking away from others. King is not taking something away for anybody.
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Parent&Homeowner



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PostSubject: Re: Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal   Tue 24 Feb 2009, 11:55 pm

Board Members,

I would like to thank each of you, including the Superintendent/Admin., for listening to all of the different opinions on this discussion board, you have a very tough decision to make but I believe together you know what is going to work for our school district and will make the choice you feel is best.
I have said it before and will say it again, I am in favor of the First Proposal of moving Howe to CP and using the Howe building for Pre-K. I think the north side of town would be a perfect place for preschoolers and I would like to see my child continue in a program we believe in. I hope if Howe moves to CP you will do everything in your power to keep as many of the teachers Howe has now and section the grades at Howe to be able to accept more kids thru the lottery, especially from the schools that would be most affected. Whatever proposal you decide on I will respect along with all the people it will affect. Thank you!
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tdrparent



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PostSubject: Some thoughts for Howe Parents   Wed 25 Feb 2009, 8:29 am

Hi folks,

I was trying to formulate these thoughts to speak them at the meeting at Howe last night, but didn't manage to do so. So I'll try to write them here.

Disclosure: I support the initial proposal. I think it's best for my son who goes to Howe. I can't even begin to weigh the pros and cons for the other children or schools in the district, so I'm glad that we have a Board of Education that can and I will respect their decision.

As people were talking last night about the surprise notification, the tight timeframe, and the ideal of staff buy-in, I thought of my own experiences working in a big bureaucracy. In the past 3 years some colleagues and I have been directed to pull off enormous projects with timeframes that seemed impossible. We walked around for a couple days feeling shocked, dazed and resentful, but then our professionalism kicked in, we "rolled up our sleeves" and got to work. Never once did we consider undermining the projects or holding back any of our efforts. We had the combined experience and talent to address every detail in a practical and successful way. I believe that this is what would happen if the Howe teachers and staff moved to CP. They are consummate professionals and would never let any personal reservations affect how they teach and care for the children.

So to the Howe parents who like the general idea, but want to move more slowly, I want to say that this opportunity may not be here next year, that the shock of the clumsy and initially vague notification should not affect our evaluation of the proposal itself, and that if the proposal moves forward, the Howe and district-wide staff, teachers and leadership will make sure that it goes well in spite of the tight timeframe. So please consider these thoughts, and if you then want the Howe K-8 at CP proposal to be approved, email or call a Board of Education member TODAY. Think about the old saying "carpe diem" - "seize the day!" This may be one of those times.

Thanks for listening!

Caroline Robinson
Mom to Theo, Grade 2
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un autre prof



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PostSubject: Re: Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal   Wed 25 Feb 2009, 10:25 am

Well said, Caroline! I am for the initial proposal too. Carpe diem is the first part of that quote. "Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero" is the rest of the quote. Loosely translated--"Seize the day as there is little to trust in the future." I think this would be an opportunity lost if the district waits. Our school personnel are professionals and I know they would be up to the task.

On another note, it appears that at the meeting last night, one parent got upset and took the PTO to task because of the memo that went home announcing the meeting. The PTO is doing their best. They deserve our respect and admiration because of the time and effort they put in on behalf of our children. Please remember the quote about walking a mile in someone else's shoes before judging them.
Thank you to the Administration and the Members of the Board of Education for all you do on behalf of our children.
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sm12



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PostSubject: tdr parent, un autre prof   Wed 25 Feb 2009, 12:39 pm

You are exactly right tdr parent, if this wait's another year, our children of the Upper Grades will not get this chance, and what a shame it would be for them to lose out on a wonderful opportunity that we have been offered. Another idea was also brought up as well. If CP is such a big school, and as Mr. Ely had said that there is a strong desire for some of the Howe Families to go there, then why can't they be allowed to go?
As stated last night, I understood that there was a split, half the people wanted to go to CP. I am willing to bet a lot of those people were upper grades, and I'm sure their were other grades involved too. I think there is a lot of us who feel like this has been presented to us several times, and now, (again) it may be taken away from us.

I know some people are concerned about the class size, but at the magnent school, the younger grades are smaller, but the upper grades have at least 25 kids in them and more. That's a lot of kids for one teacher and maybe a shared para, and the kids have adjusted to it already.

Last night, I also heard that there is a waiting list for the smaller kids to get into an early childhood education program. Wouldn't it be great to have these kids able to attend a school already all set up for them? I'll bet the ones that are waitng to get in somewhere else would be happy to go there. I am for the first proposal, but if the second proposal is being considered as well, perhaps it could be modified to meet all of our children's needs.

I agree with Un autre Prof in regards to the PTO, and I want to send out a Kudo's to all those in PTO, not just in one school, in every school. I
also want to give Kudo's to all the parents who have been involved throughout the years, that have made these programs work so well. Yes, a Big Thanks to the teachers, but, all our parents, our volunteers also need a thanks!!!
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butterball



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PostSubject: Re: Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal   Wed 25 Feb 2009, 1:21 pm

The first proposal is gone. Mr. Ely said that there wasn't enough support for it. That's because there is only a portion of one school's families who is in favor of it in comparison the the many families from other schools, who will be negatively impacted, who are against it.

Honestly, you still sound like you think it's all about Howe. It's not. You can't say "I think this is good for my child so let do it - now! Let everyone else just deal." Walking a mile in other people's shoes is grand advice.

Mr. Ely, the administrators and the board have to take into account the needs of all the students in the district. This is an extremely complicated issue ~ a Pandora's Box of issues, questions, concerns and needs tumbled out when the first proposal was made public. There's no way back now except through deliberate fact finding and probem solving. Which of you has made a rash decision about anything esle in your child's life and been happy about the outcome? We research - breast or bottle? Vaccinations or no? Organic or regular? Home school or district? We read all the books and magizines with all the lasted information becasue our kids are worth it. Why should we just push this forward without looking into the impact it will make on the other children in the district? Again, walk that mile.

I ask you to let the process happen slowly, deliberately and with a solid understanding on the impact on the district as a whole. Only then will we be at least partially sure that we will be doing what's best and right for the children - our future.


Last edited by butterball on Wed 25 Feb 2009, 3:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Parent&Homeowner



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PostSubject: Re: Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal   Wed 25 Feb 2009, 1:41 pm

Parent&Homeowner wrote:
Board Members,

I would like to thank each of you, including the Superintendent & Admin., for listening to all of the different opinions on this discussion board, you have a very tough decision to make but I believe together you know what is going to work for our school district and will make the choice you feel is best.
I have said it before and will say it again, I am in favor of the First Proposal of moving Howe to CP and using the Howe building for Pre-K. I think the north side of town would be a perfect place for preschoolers and I would like to see my child continue in a program we believe in. I hope if Howe moves to CP you will do everything in your power to keep as many of the teachers Howe has now and section the grades at Howe to be able to accept more kids thru the lottery, especially from the schools that would be most affected. Whatever proposal you decide on I will respect along with all the people it will affect. Thank you!

Some people may not have known a discussion has been going on for years regarding making Howe a K-8 just like King because unfortunately that was mostly done thru the people within the district and the volunteers that helped with the strategic plan (which I maybe more open to join knowing the impact on my child), but I’m sure they have learned from this experience of ways to present things better in the future.
In favor of the First Proposal!!!!!!
Nicole
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wachala1



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PostSubject: Re: Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal   Wed 25 Feb 2009, 3:40 pm

Fear. This is what this proposal is based upon. Not on facts, not on any research data, not on any concrete evidence, just fear. Parents do not want their Howe children going into a big middle school. I believe that's a consensus of most of Schenectady. Why would any parent want to put our children in a middle school on a list of poor standing? But then, why would we ignore the real problem - the middle schools.

A k-8 mask the real problem - our middle schools are in trouble. Howe students will have a shot of decent, smaller classes in a middle school setting, but what about the other 1,300 7th & 8th graders? Why aren't we facing the middle school problem rather than sweeping it under the carpet? Why isn't this k-8 money going to be used to help all middle schoolers district wide? We need to fix what is broken, not create a k-8 for Howe which is working well all by itself.

We are not Schenectady Christian Schools, we are a district which should make proposals which will help all our students, not just a few. A proposal which favors a small portion of our students, closes a middle school off to at least 2 other feeder schools and does not even consider helping the remaining middle schools either economically or academically is not reasonably sound.

In my opinion, Schenectady parents are so uncomfortable facing the realities that our middle schools and high school are failing that we will do anything, even at the risk of other students in the district, to avoid having our children attend them.

Proposals should be based on reality, not on blind leaps of faith.

As a sidenote, Schenectady does have a universal pre-school on the North end at St. Anthony's on Van Vranken. They also may have some openings at this time.

Thank you,
Joyce Wachala


Last edited by wachala1 on Wed 25 Feb 2009, 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Parent&Homeowner



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PostSubject: Re: Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal   Wed 25 Feb 2009, 4:54 pm

Parent&Homeowner wrote:
Dear Board of Education Members,

I would like to thank each of you, including the Superintendent and Administration, for listening to all of the different opinions on this discussion board, you have a very tough decision to make but I believe together you know what is going to work for our school district and will make the choice you feel is best. I have said it before and will say it again, I am in favor of the First Proposal of moving Howe to CP and using the Howe building for Pre-K. I think the north side of town would be a perfect place for preschoolers and I would like to see my child continue in a program we believe in. I hope if Howe moves to CP you will do everything in your power to keep as many of the teachers Howe has now and section the grades at Howe to be able to accept more kids thru the lottery, especially from the schools that would be most affected. Whatever proposal you decide on I will respect along with all the people it will affect. Thank you!
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BChriss



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PostSubject: Re: Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal   Wed 25 Feb 2009, 7:03 pm

wachala1, I agree with you 100%. There are many other parents/grandparents/concerned citizens on this blog that also gave great imput!! This is why America and Democracy is so wonderful!!!!!! We have rights and we have opinions and we should ALL be allowed to be heard. With that said, I want Howe to stay just the way it is.
Board members please listen to all sides!!!
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sm12



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PostSubject: board members   Wed 25 Feb 2009, 8:10 pm

There are many of us who have a lot of faith, that the Board of Education will make the right decision for all of us. There are a lot of us who also know the Board is in tune to the one's who have put fear into other people's heads by not stating the true facts.

Still in favor of the first proposal, which is still on the board!
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Parent&Homeowner



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PostSubject: Re: Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal   Wed 25 Feb 2009, 8:49 pm

sm12 wrote:
There are many of us who have a lot of faith, that the Board of Education will make the right decision for all of us. There are a lot of us who also know the Board is in tune to the one's who have put fear into other people's heads by not stating the true facts.

Still in favor of the first proposal, which is still on the board!

I second sm12!
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G&G



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PostSubject: Re: Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal   Wed 25 Feb 2009, 9:20 pm

I am a grandparent to a Howe student and after reading some of this discussion board and talking with my family I am in favor of the First Proposal. I grew up in Schenectady, went to a K-8 school in Schenectady and worked in Schenectady. To see my granddaughter flourish in the program at Howe joys me and for her to have a chance to continue that program longer would be a blessing.
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Not a howe dad



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PostSubject: Re: Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal   Wed 25 Feb 2009, 10:42 pm

Logically and realistically, the first proposal should not even have consideration any more, due to the inequities , contradictions and lack of universal support to present a viable argument to move forward.
Without even taking into consideration the Howe Community (which is split at best) the lack of support from the majority of the other districts made it necessary to present the revised proposal.
The revised proposal still has unanswered questions and the only reasonable solution is to put off any recommendations for a year.
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Hubbard



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PostSubject: Take your time   Thu 26 Feb 2009, 11:02 am

I agree. Take at least another year to make any change. There is so much up in the air with the budget that I think the focus needs to be on what changes will need to be made as a result of budget reductions. If we knew exactly what the reductions were today, maybe we could plan around a redistricting of middle school students and different uses for facilities, but we don't. A year will help us figure that out. A year will also allow us to look at how the k-8 at King works. And, a year will allow the district to make a coordinated plan for how all the middle schools will change if Central Park is changed to a k-8. It will also give us time to see how the numbers at the new elementary schools have really worked out, as that has to play into the numbers at all the previously existing elementary schools.

Whatever happens, if there is a change from what is happening in this current year, please notify every parent in a timely fasion through notes sent home w/students, as well as school newsletter articles and flyers/posters at the building. Do not rely on a Gazette article, or the school website to inform parents.
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Not a howe dad



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PostSubject: Re: Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal   Thu 26 Feb 2009, 11:43 am

This is taken right off of the revised proposal letter ;

As a result of feedback received from the community and at the direction of the board of education, I am exploring other K-8 options, designed to meet our goal of offering two K-8 options next year and to meet the needs of those who do desire a K-8 setting for their children.


If you already have feedback of opposition to the first proposal, why is the first proposal still even being considered? And even more likely going to be recommended and voted on?
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Parent&Homeowner



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PostSubject: Re: Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal   Thu 26 Feb 2009, 11:57 am

Maybe they realized that the opposition of the first proposal was not the majority as some may have thought and they are now seeing that there are more in favor of the first proposal. Those that really are in favor of the first proposal may have figured they didn’t need to say anything because they thought it was a done deal but since there is another proposal they realize they do need to speak up and now have, hence keeping the first proposal as an opinion. Keep in mind, not everyone is as vocal as you and I are and the other regulars on this board!
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Mary Kay Fenner



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PostSubject: Re: Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal   Thu 26 Feb 2009, 12:21 pm

I would like to take the time to publicly thank the Howe PTO Board and families who have worked on these proposals and informing the Howe community . They informed our families right from the beginning about these proposals and what they pertained to, so families could be at the meetings. At the request of the School Board they under-took the responsibility of the survey to the Howe families. They then held another meeting for the families who asked for more information on the survey with some board members in attendence along with a member of the superintendent's team. Through all of this their integrity and honesty were questioned, families still found problems with how and when they were informed etc, the list goes on. I believe that they did a fabulous job representing both the pros and cons and concerns of all of the Howe families who decided to get involved with these proposals. Many of them made their feelings about these proposals well known and they were still able to present both sides with respect, grace, honesty and diginity. As families we need to remeber that these are not paid educators, these are parents, many who have full time jobs and all who have the responsibility of their own families and lives. From a parent who has been to only 1 or 2 PTO meetings in the past 6 years . Thank you!
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un autre prof



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PostSubject: Re: Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal   Thu 26 Feb 2009, 1:08 pm

Not a howe dad wrote:
This is taken right off of the revised proposal letter ;




If you already have feedback of opposition to the first proposal, why is the first proposal still even being considered? And even more likely going to be recommended and voted on?

I think Parent & Homeowner answered your post. I think the Board of Education realizes that the majority of Howe parents were for the original proposal and that a very small minority was opposed to it. The smaller minority was just more vocal.
In another post you also state that" the Howe community is split at best." I think if you had the survey results,you would have seen otherwise.

Thank you again to the PTO for the job you do. As was previously stated, most people have no idea the amount of time and effort you put into a volunteer job.Thanks to Parent&Homeowner and Mary Kay Fenner for you posts (which express my thoughts but in a much more eloquent way!)
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Not a howe dad



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PostSubject: Re: Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal   Thu 26 Feb 2009, 3:38 pm

[quote="un autre prof"]
Not a howe dad wrote:
This is taken right off of the revised proposal letter ;




If you already have feedback of opposition to the first proposal, why is the first proposal still even being considered? And even more likely going to be recommended and voted on?

I think Parent & Homeowner answered your post. I think the Board of Education realizes that the majority of Howe parents were for the original proposal and that a very small minority was opposed to it. The smaller minority was just more vocal.
In another post you also state that" the Howe community is split at best." I think if you had the survey results,you would have seen otherwise.

quote]

I don't know how else to explain that this isn't just about whether the majority of Howe parents are for or against it.
The Howe people are a small percentage of the district.
The superintendent and Board Members need to remember they work the school district and need to listen to ALL members and not a select few.

Sorry, Mr. Janiszewski, I disagree with your reply that Howe was the only one surveyed because their school was moving. It effects the rest of the school district and should be put up for a public referendum.
The 50/50 split refered to was the first survey and it must be nice to be afforded the time to be able to do a second one as most of us only heard about the move Around Jan.22nd.
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Not a howe dad



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PostSubject: Re: Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal   Thu 26 Feb 2009, 3:41 pm

I hope the vote next week is an open vote , to see how each Board member voted.
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Parent&Homeowner



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PostSubject: Re: Important Notice, Response to Input and Update to the K-8 Proposal   Thu 26 Feb 2009, 4:08 pm

Oh stop. Trying to intimidate them for your vote next election is not what this is about. I don’t know about all of them but I know at least a couple have kids in the district so they understand and want what’s best for the children too.
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